tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post4754853047394610904..comments2024-03-28T03:10:23.679-07:00Comments on Polemarch: Wargaming as a Social ScienceThe Polemarchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10958736917525649927noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-14940480871734563512015-03-02T14:37:11.720-08:002015-03-02T14:37:11.720-08:00Aye, as Chris Grice imlies, we should call the hob...Aye, as Chris Grice imlies, we should call the hobby 'Battlegaming'.nundankethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12895608927860103442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-20715507291208124502015-03-02T06:25:28.410-08:002015-03-02T06:25:28.410-08:00As a very new wargamer, I remember looking at thos...As a very new wargamer, I remember looking at those pictures and realising I'd never be able to manage a game like that....The Polemarchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958736917525649927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-10618487930695949302015-03-02T05:17:13.022-08:002015-03-02T05:17:13.022-08:00You think? Can't imagine that ...
Very possib...You think? Can't imagine that ...<br /><br />Very possibly. It was the 70's, after all. Perhaps he didn't have enough Robin Hood figures.<br />I had a Carthaginian army converted from Airfix back then. It was awful.Chris Gricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11140516359480860914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-15979871804952498352015-03-02T04:58:18.661-08:002015-03-02T04:58:18.661-08:00There might also be a bit of Anglo-Saxon pride in ...There might also be a bit of Anglo-Saxon pride in there as well, of course.<br /><br />But yes, we could call it battle gaming (it'll never catch on). <br />Wasn't it Terry Wise's book that had an Airfix N. american Indian mounted chief masquerading as a Carthaginian cavalryman in one of the pictures?The Polemarchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958736917525649927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-58543236090501207602015-03-02T04:55:52.446-08:002015-03-02T04:55:52.446-08:00Agreed. But the point of a campaign is rarely simp...Agreed. But the point of a campaign is rarely simply to have a battle. As wargamers, however, the point is to have a wargame. Maybe that is why big Hyboria campaigns work, because the resources matter in the long run, which might not be the case in a one off campaign game.The Polemarchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958736917525649927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-50098259717380911592015-03-02T04:52:35.162-08:002015-03-02T04:52:35.162-08:00I wouldn't disagree with either point. I do wo...I wouldn't disagree with either point. I do wonder if wargamers arriving for a wargame might not be a little disappointed if they left without rolling a dice, however.<br /><br />I think, though, that many wargame rules lend themselves to 'big' battles, and don't work well for the little wars side of things.<br /><br />Also, it is interesting to note that the Europeans were forced to change tactics / strategy to wibn. mayber that is the 'western way of way', if there is one.The Polemarchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10958736917525649927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-4800829205898422822015-02-28T11:24:39.122-08:002015-02-28T11:24:39.122-08:00First thought that struck me on reading this was D...First thought that struck me on reading this was Du Guesclin in the Hundred Years' War teaching the French that they would only win the war by not fighting battles against the English. And no, we never wargame the bit where the French are studiously avoiding a battle; we cut to Agincourt.<br /><br />Perhaps it's the name of the hobby that's wrong? Looking at the bookshelf over my painting table, there is Terry Wise's 'Introduction to Battle Gaming'. Problem solved.Chris Gricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11140516359480860914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-11618047011940279432015-02-28T07:31:30.214-08:002015-02-28T07:31:30.214-08:00Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I would ...Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I would caution against over-emphasising the European-Oriental divide. The 18th century war of manoevre was often an avoidance of battle, a jockeying for position for control of resources or lines of communication. This was closer to Sun Tzu than to Clausewitz. It was the NVA that ultimately captured Saigon and not the VC operating on its own.nundankethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12895608927860103442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5185876513552272723.post-59379763887638237152015-02-28T05:25:40.504-08:002015-02-28T05:25:40.504-08:00I agree with much of this but would present 2 poin...I agree with much of this but would present 2 points.<br /><br />The 1st and minor one is that while the battle is the quintessential form of wargame it is far from the only form. I have played many a skirmish in which the aim was to avoid battle and carry out a mission. Getting a convoy safely across the table is one of the most common along with blowing a bridge etc or raiding an enemy location and getting away with loot or after causing damage to a depor etc.<br /><br />Secondly while battles in life are part of our military culture it is not just cultural. If you are footloose nomads like the Scythians you don't need to stand and fight but if you live in towns and cities at some point you can find yourself having to either fight or losing food and family. You might build a wall around the town and offer battle from behind it but that is still a battle.<br /><br />One of the most striking examples is how Europeans dealt with native American's reluctance to fight pitched battles. Unable to force them to stand they eventually started sending expeditions to attack their towns after the harvest was in. Ambushes and raids were usually not enough to stop the expeditions and the expeditions were almost always strong enough to win the final battle if one was attempted. The houses and food stores were then destroyed leaving the tribes to freeze or starve during the following winter. When the Europeans reached the plains where many tribes were nomadic it was harder to force battles but a variation on the brutal strategy of forcing a choice between starvation, surrender or fighting battles was used with the same long term result. <br /><br />One side had no cultural belief in decisive battles but were faced with the choice to fight one, surrender or die anyway. Insurgents that can't be separated and isolated form a different and harder problem for the side that believes in battles.Ross Mac rmacfa@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04053555991679802013noreply@blogger.com